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Post by powell300 on Sept 27, 2007 15:29:39 GMT -8
Jason; Thanks for answering my question. I know there is no easy answer here and appreciate your candid response.
Not to open up a "can of worms" here, but it doesn't seem fair that Ball, Snead and Hylton do not have to join a league in Eugene to bowl, but we would be asking any new member to do so. Who is going to verify every member in every association to ensure that our members are bowling in a designated association league?
We are making this way too complicated.
Respectfully, Dennis Powell
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Post by mccleary on Sept 27, 2007 15:47:20 GMT -8
Actually, verifying where someone bowls is fairly easy through bowl.com, I could verify where someone bought either an USBC or local association card in a matter of seconds. I could verify our entire association in one day. As far as the difference between requirements for a new member and a past member, that is how our rules were written last season (before me). A perceived unfairness is natural when dealing with grandfather clauses, whether with SOAS or building codes, zoning laws, etc... out in the real world. There are never going to be easy answers for everybody, what is good for bowler A might be detriminal for bowler B. I wish I had a solution that was satisfactory for everybody, but short of winning the lottery and putting $2500 into each tournament and lowering entry fees to $50, I just don't know how we make it work for all the bowlers.
Jason
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Post by powell300 on Sept 27, 2007 16:15:50 GMT -8
The rule is kind of wacky anyway. It says I must bowl two-thirds of the league to be eligible to join and bowl. When in fact when I bowled the first tournament our leagues hadn't even started.
Maybe it should say to be eligible to bowl "Grand Finals" you must have bowled two-thirds of a league in the designated geographic boundary.
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Post by gregn on Sept 27, 2007 16:31:25 GMT -8
Couple things I can add that may help clarify. The two-thirds rule is supposed to be for the Grand Finals only (at least that is what it was in the past, unless this years board changed it). My guess is that it is more of a typo or placed in the wrong area, but I haven't looked at it. As far as the grandfather clause, I recommended that rule, which was approved by the board (Dennis I think you were on it, not positive), but my feeling was there is a big difference between establishing a new boundary rule, and telling long-time members they are no longer welcome to bowl. Without this rule I know James and Garrett, maybe others, would fall outside the boundary area, and after all of their support they deserve to be allowed to bowl.
Greg
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Post by powell300 on Sept 27, 2007 17:18:08 GMT -8
Greg; You are correct. I was a part of that decision process. Maybe using Ball and Hylton was a bad example. The by-laws stipulate ANY bowler (regardless of how much they participated) if they were a member prior to the 2006-2007 season they are eligible to bowl without restrictions.
That could be a bowler that cashed once and became a member to those that have supported the organization over the years. That is a pretty big gap. Maybe it isn't a issue, I just thought it warranted being discussed.
The rule does seem out of place if the intent was for the "Grand Finals" only.
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Post by 24garretgold on Sept 27, 2007 19:38:25 GMT -8
I wonder how many Joe Bowlers read this board? Is there a dozen or so of us that talk to ourselves while believing that we are talking to the masses? Maybe the discussions on this subject should be printed and sent with the next round of entrys...just a thought.
While seeing the issues all the way around, my stance remains the same. I would like to think it is a good compromise. If outside of the boundaries, bowl half the events and petition the board to become a member. If you have been respectable, pleasant and therefor a good addition to the SOAS, you get in. If you have been rude or shady in any way...see ya!
I really do enjoy the SOAS atmosphere. The OBA, when I used to bow anyhoos, had a much more cut-throat environment which i actually liked at the time. Now that I am all grown up (yea right!) I much more enjoy the friendships and overall good will that this organization provides. I personally would only bring bowlers across the boundaries that I feel would fit the SOAS expectations. I have three of them now that would really like to be a part of the SOAS experience. It is my hope that the SOAS will find a way to let those that truly want to experience and support the organization do so.
Garret
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snead
Junior Member
I hope they're dry.........cause I need them to be!
Posts: 65
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Post by snead on Sept 28, 2007 11:32:41 GMT -8
This is a complicated issue, but here are some examples that continue to be the basis for boudries, if I may. Math 95- 180 prize check- 75 entry fee-25 membership fee-95 hotel - 25 food = overall net loss. Chance to win a SOAS and basically break even.........priceless. Take those same expenses, and subtract the prize check negatively impacted by a carpool load of elite players from "up north"...........literally priceless. This impact maybe further exaserbated if that person didn't cash regularly when putting the entire season into perspective. A prime example of this without mentioning names would be bowler A. Bowler A bowled for a couple years, maybe not every tournament, but quite a few. Bowler A had a really good tournament one November, the same month a carload of people from outside the current boundries decided to make the jaunt down to a northernly/along I-5 SOAS. They all made the cut, bowler A missed by like three pins. Bowler A, to my knowledge has never cashed and would have made thier first cut. Bowler A continued to bowl the rest of the year and a half. The first tournament this year, they were there but did not bowl. Why? and more importantly would that experience of making the cut at an all-star have kept them around trying to improve their game. For some folks, making the cut is just a three times out of four experience, for others, the boundries help make someone that supports the organization year-long get that first ever experience......maybe their only one. You get the idea. As for the other guys, they bowl OBA's: not because the SOAS wasn't competitive or full of a bunch of great people- infact they both enjoyed the company very much and were excited about bowling on non-house shot conditions. But, financially for them to bowl the stop has to be really close, and even then if an OBA was on a competing weekeng, they would go bowl that instead to stay in the points race. Why again are we catoring to these people at the potential expense of others??? Admittably this may only be an issue at one or two tournaments throughout the year- those farther north on the I-5 cooridor- which is all the more reason for a boundry in my opinion. Speaking of the I-5 cooridor, the next OBA date and the next SOAS date are the same. There seems to be a lot of guys from the Eugene area north that are signed up for the OBA instead of driving to Klamath to support the SOAS. Why? Seriously. is it the U.S. open win a spot format, because it is closer/better drive/makes more financial sense, because the SOAS has boundries, because the shot is tough, or some other reason? Does this issue have many sides/many solutions-yes. what is the best one? I don't know. Perspective0.02 For those 3 new comers that wish to bowl, Eugene is about 35 minutes away from lebanon/albany. How many people drive as long or longer than that to bowl league currently- and by requiring them to do so in order to bowl the SOAS, not only helps out a host center within the boundries, but effectively eliminates the possibility of someone from outside the boundries coming down to poach the prize fund at one or two stops- by rendering the short term financial risk/reward scenario nill and only replacing it with those who desire to be a frequent supporter of the SOAS. Another solutions would be if that they wanted to bowl, then they could pay for four or five stops up front to guarantee that they would support the SOAS all year. There are other solutions to the problem.........is there a problem? A more important discussion point would be a membership drive, an incentive to recruit- all call to arms/voice to every member to promote the tournaments. This needs to start now. Anyone have any ideas? SNead out.
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Post by powell300 on Sept 28, 2007 12:36:14 GMT -8
Snead; Don't call me out for not supporting the SOAS because I have only missed one tournament in the 5 consecutive years that I have bowled.
Yes, I would very much like to win the tournament and the entry into the US OPEN. So, this month, because bowlers have options, I have decided to drive North and compete. It has nothing to do with boundries, travel, tough lane conditions, etc. It is because I would really like win that tournament.
Powell, out.
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Post by 24garretgold on Sept 28, 2007 15:45:11 GMT -8
Snead, You make me laugh. Way to make friends ya dork. Try engaging your brain before you spew. While you try to engage said brain, think on this... When was the last time you bowled league in a southern center to show this support you are so concerned about that everyone show? To some, YOU are a northerner and in looking to the future it is my bet that you won't be living in the south anytime soon. In fact, you are less of a Southern boy than any of the Eugene boys. They live their year round and bowl there...you do neither. You are like James and I. You are able to be a member because you are a part of the grandfather clause. And don't give me or anyone else the line of you have a home address in the south. That would be your parents house or Jammie's parents. YOU don't own or rent a place of residence in the south and you don't bowl league there. That should kind of give you a new prospective on the issue...if you are honest with yourself. Have a nice day my friend Garret 1 more thing: "membership drive/recruits", isn't that what I am doing by trying to bring in three new bowlers while you are obviously wanting to make it difficult... odd and confusing...
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snead
Junior Member
I hope they're dry.........cause I need them to be!
Posts: 65
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Post by snead on Sept 29, 2007 17:15:16 GMT -8
Garret, Attacking someone's intellegence is a sign of a weak argument, are we arguing? The grandfather clause is a seperate issue than the boundry discussion- in which I was simply stating perspective from the pro side of the oft-overly tall fence......apparently the concept was hard to remember. Do we disagree on the issue, probably. Would we both love to see Mike, Chris and Nick be able to bowl and carpool down with us for the SOAS- definately. But, in order to be objective, I disregarding the fact that those three are friends of mine too and tried to be the voice of the silent(majority in this case if you tally up the votes from last season : . You did have a good point about us "12 angry men" being dillusional thinking that the masses read this board, and getting accurate feedback in discussions related to SOAS members as a whole is impossible. This issue will be voted on again by the membership, as no one person or handful of people can/should make the final decision. I would like to see more people that are genuinely interested in supporting the SOAS be allowed to bowl, and would carpool down to Eugene to bowl league to help. Without abolishing the boundries, we could extend them to Albany/Lebanon/Corvallis. We could require people from outside the boundries to commit/pay for 3/4/5 tournaments. We could do away with boundries all together. There are many options: what is best long-term for the SOAS-hopefully we will find out. Accusation#1: It wasn't my intent to call you seven "out", but I was curious as to why you weren't bowling. The entry fee is fifty dollars more for the OBA, if you guys got three more people to pay an additionaly fifty bucks over the SOAS entry fee, the high finisher at Hanscams could theoretically "win" a spot into the US. OPEN (just like everyone else with $500 ) Maybe it is the format, or condition or the competition or that it is much closer and a better drive or different for everyone: I didn't know that is why I asked. If it could be the drive or the expense, then you could see why someone living north of Eugene might only come down and support the SOAS at the most northernly events. Maybe that is enough to allow them to bowl? You decide....as long as 24K thinks that your intellectually competent
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Post by 24garretgold on Sept 29, 2007 18:31:42 GMT -8
No, attacking the high intelligence which you perceive you have is just plain fun...and easy! Wow, I just realized that picking on you makes me kind of a bully of sorts...my bad. As for bowling the US Open Q, I always look forward to bowling at Shawn's place. He has a trick little center and is a great host. He also knows how to lay out a pattern to make you play or drive you nuts...I just love that. Besides it is the US Open Q! Aside from Shawn's 4-Seasons Open and the SO Masters (which I am not allowed to bowl), it is considered one of the top events in the state. Who else puts out a truly flat pattern? I am looking forward to the challenge. I know you would never bowl it because there is no tug room on a flat condition. (couldn't help myself ;D) Sleep well bro and I will see you Monday night at Highland. Hylton's Kryptonite
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Post by mags on Sept 30, 2007 21:09:15 GMT -8
i too am very disappointed in the turnout from the first tournament even though i did not bowl...i did not bowl due to lack of funds on many reasons...one due to new baby and other due to remodeling of the house..would love to be bowling but have other priorities..will try to make at least 5 tournaments though...love the organization and all it represents..just don't like all the disputing over boundaries and the what not...i think we should leave things as they are, as they were intended when the organization was first established and we can examine it at the end of every year...but why discuss it all year and take away from what a great organization we have here...the summer is when these things need to be addressed, not until then...just bowl the tournaments and then discuss things later....hope to see you at next tournament...mags
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Post by shastina on Oct 5, 2007 17:48:46 GMT -8
I'm still new to this club, and really enjoy the competition. Is this club going to dye if the boundries are opened up?. Is this club going to go to 100 plus entries at every tourney?. If anyone can tell me the exact answer and be right, I need to talk with them cause I'm getting close to retirement and I could use some stock picks. The answer to either one is unknown and we should be looking at what is the best possible direction to go. I hope everyone votes on this with the club in mind and not with their personal feelings. We are a strong club and can become stronger working together. See you all in Klamath
Bob
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