Boundries? Eligibility

[cookiemonster]

I have no objection to being the 20th highest average at 220 in ANY league...SCRATCH or Handicap. I am bowling Monday at Roxy in a 12 team 4-man league just to get my scratch league fix that was being fulfilled at Lava last year. My reality is that I barely have time to bowl two leagues and SOAS while remaining married-which is still important to me. The attraction of the scratch league and the SOAS to me is the competition...PERIOD! The better the competition the better the test of my "true" talent. Intellectually, I know I am not the BEST bowler in the area (not even in the top 10) but on any given sunday I could be. Just as important to me is trying to be a GOOD bowler on conditions that are not my favorite or BEST scoring shot just like at Lava on Sunday. I believe (hope) most 210+ bowlers have the same competitive edge / mentality as mine.

The bottom line for me is (pardon the ARMY slogan) that we make SOAS all it can be. I agree advertising is probably not THE solution alone, but we should still use some. Use the billboards. Use the bowling newspapers. Use the internet. Use word of mouth. Use the mail. Use the phone to remind. Our Rotary club used to make $5K every year from a really average golf tourney. The year I was President it made$2K because nobody knew about it. Advertising is just part of a comprehensive solution to making it better. I still think that the more restrictions we place on entering ultimately causes fewer & fewer people to be attracted to SOAS long-term...Tom

[Admin]

Just talking outloud here, but it seems like SOAS needs to be one or the other. It either needs to be open with no boundaries, come and see how good you are. Or it needs to be like it was initially created, as a larger scale travel league in southern Oregon with boundaries and affordable entry fees. With it trying to be both, each side has good points to why changes should be made.

Which do I prefer? I don't have an answer as I can see both sides. But again, just talking to myself.

[powell300]

Brian;
I think you are 100% correct. It is kind of a catch 22 scenario. There are definite arguments both ways on this. Since I live outside the "southern" boundries, I don't have a good sense of what is being said down south on why bowlers have stopped bowling. All I know is that I have been able to talk to a lot of bowlers in Eugene and have gotten them excited about bowling a scratch tournament that is really fun to bowl in. My personal opinion is that I think a lot of it has to do with economics and other life events that drive bowlers away. If going back to the original concept is the direction you go, I wish you good luck with the organization.

With the discussion that Randy had regarding scratch bowling being down in general, it would appear as if it went back to its original concept there is a some doubt that it could be pulled off. Randy made another excellent point regarding the bowling centers that host a tournament. You are seeing less centers hosting events because of the conflicts with open play. All of this does not make the future very bright. Getting together with the proprietors and strengthening that relationship will be very important.

Ok, I will get off my rant and say that it has been a great experience bowling the SOAS and I hope that we can continue to grow and make it better. I hope I can be a part of that process.

[hollywood]

Well Ray Kroc had no idea when he opened the first Mcdonalds that it would grow into the empire that it is today. sure he sold hamburgers, but in the same sense you sell or market a very successful bowling club. so when the bowling public wants to compete, it shouldnt matter where you live. I didnt know Roy Rider, so its hard to say what he would had done about the so called "Boundries" being an issue year after year.
But then again when he was around, the Bowling world was different. Events were held at Bowling Alleys, now they are called Bowling centers. Much different in the eyes of the men and women who run them. Cosmic has taken over, and its all about the $$$$ to alot of the proprietors. To me, its nice to go down south and look on your walls and see a High average Board, or a Hall of fame board. something you dont see up north. Heck, the Banners dont make it to the host centers half the time. also when time is short, they will eliminate the top 5 because their sunday nighters dont want to wait for the tournament to end.

what i am saying, its not about the attendence, or the boundries. its just the so called sport of bowling is dying. and it hard to motovate people about our sport when it cost 4.00 a game and 3.00 a gallon to get there. not to mention, if you dont have the RIGHT ball, you can purchase one for 250.00. Like powell, i dont bowl for money anymore, i bowl for titles. and last weekend alone based on the last 5 years, 27 champions were not present...

where are they..........sometimes life happens, and bowling isnt as important.......

Just my thoughts. Mr.900

[voiceofthevolcano]

Geez James,
I thought you were just another pretty face....but you are right on. We can't hold on to the past, and sometimes change is difficult (but necessary). All this talk about boundries isn't a personal desire, it is to be sure we make an educated decision on what is best for the club. Not just the "cream of the crop". I enjoy seeing different people (and personalities) on the lanes. I think the discussion thus far has been positive in the sense that everyone is genuinely concerned about the future of the SOAS. So keep the discussion going and maybe we will come up with the best decision ultimately.
Thanks to all the "brothers" who care.
Randy C

[hollywood]

I believe if you can commit yourself to five tournaments a year then you should be considered a true member of the SOAS, not just a ROY MUNSON from the north coming down every so often to take a check from a bowler who bowls all of the tournaments. If you look at last year list of people who bowled all 8 events, you would be surprised....only 3 bowlers..

I might take some heat at the next OBA, but your group is so much more talented then they are, so it shouldnt be about boundries. it should be about trying to find a way to excite new bowlers, rather it be up-incoming Juniors, or keglers who used to bowl.

Take our regional tour for example, shawn copeland will run a win a spot event and he will get 50 or more bowlers trying to win that spot, but when the actually event is in town, about 35 bowlers will show up. To be honest, the SOAS needs someone like Bill Brickley around, because he held an event last weekend that attacted 72 players and he had to turn away 6 more who wanted to play. Most of them i didnt know, but because he ran it well, and the condition was fair, people had a good time. Sure the entry was low ( 25.00) but Bill went around and thanked people for bowling. Not to mention it was held at roxey ann lanes, which is always a treat to go to.
Honestly we dont have centers like that up here, that is why i choose to drive three hours instead of 1 hour. Imagine if places like roxey ann, hanscam,north bend, were all bought out by AMF. I cant count the times their centers have failed to provide good service, it gets old being asked to bowl a cartoon/nascar league 3 times a night.
Just in the recent years, your bowling world has already taken a hit, with the loss of indian lanes and medford lanes( heard alot of stories) but when they are replaced or rebuilt, the same spark isnt there anymore..
Remember when local merchants once bought the space on the sweep to advertise their business, what about late night potgames, or leagues that are full..
sure i am remebering the past, but unless we can work together and find an answer, it wont matter what side of the boarder you live on....

Hylton

[voiceofthevolcano]

Correction: 20 people bowled all 8 (only 3 cashed in all 8)

[hollywood]

My bad, my headcold is still with me, which i caught in the south............H-9

[powell300]

Of those 20 that bowled all 8 last year, 5 of them (25%) did not bowl the first tournament for whatever reason.

[stacy]

Sorry to hear about the cold James, you probably got it from me , I was on your pair and I'm still sick( shouldn't have even bowled)
Stacy

[gregn]

I know I have talked about this before, but I think we are making a lot more out of the boundary issue than we need to and are not focusing our attention to the most important areas. For at least three or four years we did have open boundaries and anyone with an ABC card was eligible to bowl the monthly tournaments. In that time the number of "Northerners" for lack of a better word other than Dennis, Mike, Garrett, Hylton, etc. can probably be counted on one hand. I appreciate the fact that guys like Garrett and Dennis and Chuck are talking up all-stars to others, they are some of the few who are, but I really doubt that all of a sudden we would suddenly have 20 people caravaning down from Portland to bowl a $500 tournament. I agree with Tom and the few other points that were made: why are we only getting 19 of the 60 scratch bowlers from Medford bowling, why are we only getting 4-6 bowlers from Grants Pass, who has a 50-60 person scratch league and a 30-40 person summer PBA league. I think we need to focus on the immediate areas first, that is where we will find the 20 bowlers per tournament we want, not Portland.

Greg

[mccleary]

There are two main factors that matter when it comes to entries: Affordability, and Level of Enjoyment (Competitive Balance is a subcategory of each).

Affordability has many factors beyond just the entry fee (although that is a biggie). How much money will be spent on travel (gas, hotel, food)?, How big of a commitment do I have to make (how many tournaments do I need to bowl)? Do I need a regular of supply of new equipment to be competitive? How competitive is my talent level / how often will I cash?

Level of Enjoyment is another main factor that has many different subcategories. Afterall, this is a hobby / recreational activity for 99% of the field. Do they enjoy their fellow bowlers company? Are they competitive? If not, is it talent level or some other factor (equipment, lane conditions, etc...) Do they like the rules? Do they like the type of lane conditions? Is the time commitment acceptable with their family situation?

Lets not be naive. Money, Time, & Competitiveness are the reasons why entries are in the mid 70's instead of in the 90's or low 100's like they once were. When you compare the 2005 thru 2007 seasons with the peak of this organizaton ('93-'98 seasons), cost is up (higher entry fees, more travel, more expensive equipment, higher gas prices, etc...), time commitment is up (more tournaments, more miles traveled requiring more two day commitments), and the upper echelon of the organization is just as talented now if not more.

Hylton mentioned Bill's tournament on Saturday. Well, the reason Bill can get more than 72 bowlers so easily is a $25 entry fee, a one day commitment, and the fact that his other two tournaments did not have near of strong fields, which made the majority of his local bowlers competitive on the challenging, lower-scoring conditions. If you bumped up the entry to $50, had one tournament every month, and had the same level of talented out of town bowlers, then entries would start decreasing regardless of promotion. Part of this is simple economics. Why else do you think there were approximately 15-20 bowlers who got entries for SOAS, were past SOAS members, and chose to bowl Saturday for a $25 entry fee instead of on Sunday for a $75 + $25 entry fee & membership? It is either affordability or they just no longer enjoy bowling SOAS. If it is lack of enjoyment, then what is the reason they no longer are having fun?

One last thing I would like to point out is that any comparison of SOAS and OBA is really comparing apples and oranges. The OBA draws from a MUCH larger population base and yet averages about the same or slightly fewer entries. WHY? Well, I would speculate that they had different origins and have a very different makeup of participants. The OBA was founded to be the premier scratch organization in the state without needing to join the PBA. The OBA has always had a "come bowl against the best and see who wins" approach. As has been stated before, that was not really the goal of SOAS when it was formed. SOAS was competitive but was also about giving all levels of scratch bowlers in Southern Oregon an opportunity to bowl at a high level with an affordable entry fee and a modest tournament schedule. It has now evolved to somewhat of a highbred between the OBA and what the SOAS once was years ago. The biggest difference currently between the OBA and SOAS is comparing who supports each organization. While the top 15 to 20 bowlers in each organization are very similar, the SOAS has a much more diverse field with many different levels of scratch bowlers. The OBA field is much deeper with an overall more talented and mostly more seasoned group of bowlers. I don't see a group of 30-40 bowlers supporting the OBA regularly that carry 200-215 league averages with limited equipment and limited funds.

When we discuss boundaries, we must not only look at who isn't bowling, but who is currently bowling and what do they want from SOAS. I agree with Greg, an open boundary is not likely to add very many bowlers, and it most likely will only add bowlers to the most northern events on our schedule due to the economics of travel vs. our payouts. It has also been pretty much proven through our history that there is a high probability that any bowler that comes from outside the boundary will be an elite level bowler that will cash at a higher rate than 1 out of 3, once again due to the economics that show only an elite level bowler will take the higher risk (more expenses) to travel to bowl in our organization. The numbers from our history overwhelming support that realization.

Jason

[powell300]

Jason;
With all that said (whew), and so I am not reading between the lines here, what would your recommendation to the membership be on this issue?

#1 - Recommend keeping the current boundries in place with the current rule of having to bowl in a center within those boundries.

#2 - Remove the boundries and let anyone bowl.

#3 - Go back to the original SOAS concept and only allow bowlers that bowl in the Southern part of the state compete.

#4 - Some hybrid of the above.

Curious to hear your thoughts on this.

[voiceofthevolcano]

What I construed from the recent posts is there isn't going to be a big impact either way on the issue. The OBA does have a much larger league bowler base to draw from (not to mention it is unlimited to anyone) and yet gets less entrants than we do. It might be economics again. Their entry fee is $100 or more per tournament and ours is $75. I talked to Jason on the issue, and he doesn't have a recommendation. We just want everyone to really consider all the facts. This club is not based on "bring on the best in the world", it is more of an opportunity for league bowlers to find out where they fit competitively.

[mccleary]

I honestly don't know what the right answer is. I am just trying to make sure everyone understands the whole entry issue is much deeper than just boundaries / no boundaries. Of the twenty or so bowlers from this area that I personally spoke with and that didn't bowl, the reasons I mentioned above were the reasons most often given to me. I think a boundary or no-boundary will have a very small short term impact on entries, and the long term impact is too difficult to predict.

My personal opinion is that we currently have some bowlers who would like to bowl that could travel a short distance and join a league in Eugene (supporting a host center), making them eligible to bowl SOAS and that any other bowlers from outside the area would have a very minimal effect on current entries. History shows that these other bowlers from outside the current boundary area would cash at a higher rate than average, which in turn has a negative economic impact on our larger group of core bowlers who are currently supporting SOAS.

Factoring those together, I would probably vote to keep the current boundaries in place, but I respect the opposing point of view and believe it should be a vote of members.

Jason